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Lubrication and Oil
This is Mark's speech about oil leaks on 79-95 Rx-7's.
1979-82: oil pan gasket pretty common, as well as the oil injection
tubes. so, oil cooler lines usually begin to seep around 100,000, and
will either get little worse, or break. The crush washers on the banjo
fitting on the rear housing oil cooler line also will leak. Cheapest
easiest fix is the oil filter stand o-rings, located below the oil filter.
Very common, if not been done, likely are leaking now. If the upper front
rotor housing is oily, the internal o-rings around the tubular dowels are
bad. Not easy fix. Motor must be removed in order to repair. The oil
coolers are not prone to leak on that year model, see following.
1983-5 12A: ditto above except instead of oil filter stand o-rings and
oil cooler lines, substitute oil/water oil cooler on top of engine. 4
o-rings in the cooler, all leak eventually, usually around 100,000 miles.
This is obviously a concern but the big problem are the 2 heater hoses that
get soaked with oil, weakened, and explode at the most inconveinent time.
*** This hose, "long heater hose" splitting due to oil saturation is #1
killer of engines in all cars 1979-1991. If the car is cruising under high
load situations, such as hi-way speeds, hose breaks, coolant gone in matter
of few seconds, and car not immediately turned off, engine will warp in
VERY few minutes.
1984-5 13B: Not prone to oil injection or tubular dowel leak, although
filterstand o-rings and oil cooler & lines common in the 100,000 mile
range. Biggest problem is the oil cooler splitting at the input flange,
small crack, parrallel to threads. Only way to properly diagnose is to
remove underpan, clean area with brake clean and air, pressure washer, etc,
and with engine running, see exactly where leak is.
*** This also applies to diagnosing any oil leak properly. Many times
oil leaks are confused since fan and moving car tends to swirl oil around.
1986-91: Most common leak is the filter stand, oil cooler lines, and pan
gasket.
Not prone to injection lines or tubular dowel. Although, the front pulley
19mm bolt likes to work its way out, causing oil to follow. Look for oil
sprayed around fan and on hood. Good time to replace the thermo pellet as
well, since already apart.
Turbo II: Ditto above, but add turbo oil inlets/outlets. Do not
usually leak unless not properly replaced if turbo has been removed. Many
shops do not replace the 15-20 small gaskets/seals/metal lines/washers/
that MUST be replaced when removing the turbo for leak free results the
first time. Same applies to engine jobs.
1993+: No really common leaks as of yet on cars that have not had
substantial work. If replaced with Mazda rebuilt, the oil pan and
sometimes front cover and other washers/gaskets/seals will leak if not
replaced properly.
General & Conclusion: Front and rear seal leaks are usually blamed, but
actually are very rarely the culprit. The oil filter stand or 83-85 12A
oil cooler (or even oil pan gasket) can often appear to be coming from rear
seal. oil leaks in front of engine are often blamed on front seal, usually
oil injection pump, lines or front cover if engine has been replaced and
gasket not properly installed.
Oil cooler lines should be replaced in pairs, I can almost guarantee that
the one not replaced will leak soon after the other one is replaced, and
easier to replace both at the same time anyway.
Oil leaks can obviously lead to oil starvation, but also attribute to other
problems. Leaks saturate rubber, weakening coolant hoses and suspension
parts. In addition, oil collecting on exhaust parts, heat shields, etc.
can cause underbody/hood fires.
That would be in the bad thing category.
Hope this helps. Easier and more cost effective to do it at your
convenience than the cars. More rotarys under 130,000 miles die due to oil
startvation and overheating than engine mechanical failure (turbo cars
excluded)
So, everyone pressure wash engine compartment, find leaks, and fix.
(just make sure you have good ignition wires, or won't re-start!!).
- -Mark Schroeder
http://www.import-parts.com/parts/
mazrx7@onramp.net
---
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:47:47 -0500
From: Bruce Lewis <pblewis@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: (rx7) oil pressure and the pellet thing
At 10:51 PM 9/22/97 -0400, RXmazda808@aol.com wrote:
>If your thermo pellet dies......
>how can you tell?
>what will happen to your motor..?
>does it die due to low oil pressure ?
>do the apex seal springs die do to excessive heat?
>
>Help, does anybody know .........
>my oil pressure seams low..
>(story is my gage was reading 110++ psi then i put a new sending unit in and
>now it reads low... put a machanical gage on it and it read 71psi @3Krpm hot
>... that was 50,000miles ago... so i kind of dont really care what the gage
>in the car reads as long as it moves....but all this talk about the thermo
>pellet in the e shaft got me wondering.... my oil gage i noticed goes up to
>about 60 when cold.... goes down in two minutes between the 30 and 60 mark
>(45psi) when fully hot it will fluctuate but highest oil pressure when hot
> by my gage is at 2000rpms (50psi) then at 3000rpm it drops to 35psi....idle
>sometimes almost drops completely...
Looks to me like the thermo-pellet in the E shaft is gone. I had the same
symptoms. Before you do anything else get a mechanical gauge on it to find
what your true readings are.
When I noticed a drop in my oil pressure I started checking to see what it
was. I finally became pretty sure it was the E shaft pellet. What I saw
happening was that when the engine was cold the pressure would run 60 psi
at 3000 rpm. After the oil warmed up it would start to thin and the
pressure would drop to 35 to 45 psi at 3000 rpm. The pressure would never
rise back up to the 60 psi point. This was a dramatic change that happened
in less than a week so I new something was wrong.
Pullled the thermo pellet and tested it. Sure enough it was bad. What you
should see under normal conditions is that when cold the pressure (all
readings at 3,000rpm) will be at about 60 psi. As the oil warms up it will
drop to about 45 psi. After the OIL warms up to 140 deg. F the pellet will
block the by-pass hole and the pressure will come back up to 60 psi Plus.
When I say the oil comes up to temperature this is different from the water
temp. I have found that it takes about 3-8 miles of driving after the water
temp gauge reads normal until the thermo-pellet activates.
Cost of parts to replace this thermo pellet is about 75-80 dollars and is
releatively easy to do. 30-40 minutes to get it out and about another 30-40
to get the new one in.
Hope this helps
Bruce Lewis
89 Convertible, HKS Cat Back,Gutted Pre-Cat
Hi-Flow Main-Cat, K&N Filter & Nitto's for Power Gain
88 10th Anniversary - Stock
---
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:43:14 -0700
From: Everett Kamlley <EKAMLLEY@novell.com>
To: dclark@students.uwf.edu
Cc: list@teamfc3s.ORG
Subject: Re: (FC3S) Oil Leak: I need some info
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: RO
>>> Dale Clark <dclark@students.uwf.edu> 08/15/97 01:17PM >>>
>>Howdy!<<
Heh hehh...
>>Well, I've noticed on my car I seem to have an oil leak at the front end
of the eccentric shaft pulley. I know this is a common leak, but can't find
in my documentation any reasons why it leaks/how to properly fix.<<
As far as documentation goes, I haven't seen anything written up about it,
but my guess would be the washer that goes on that 19mm bolt to the oil
pellet thingie...
>>I'm assuming I need to pull off the clutch-driven fan and the pulley on
the eccentric shaft, remove the 19mm bolt there (I have the starter motor
trick saved)...then what? I know that's where the oil bypass pellet is;
should this be replaced/modified at this time? I've got Ted's hack for
modifying the pellet; what's the rationale behind the mod? Also, what do I
need to
order/do to fix the leak?<<
Yep, gotta remove those items to get to the bolt. Be careful with the
radiator though, as it can get pretty easily damaged if you dropped a heavy
rachet or something... I would do the mod, since you're going there anyways
to fix that leak. I assume you already know what to do to it.
The reason for this mod, is mainly a preventive maintenence thing. From
what I remember, at startup when the motor is cold, the by-pass valve
re-routes the oil back down to the pan not letting any to the rotors to help
warm up the motor more quickly. Once the engine heats up, the valve moves
and re-routes the oil back to the eccentric shaft. This mod keeps the valve
open / directed to the eccentric shaft all the time.
For that leak, again I'm pretty sure it's that washer that goes on that
bolt. It's pretty thin and it's made of brass I think. Careful when
re-installing that washer though, as if it slips, it will bend and leak
again. I think that washer is like $3 bucks at the dealer???
>>And, yes, I do have a fine spray of oil on the underside of the hood, as
well as on the clutch-driven fan and around the front of the motor.<<
Sounds like fun. :-)
>>Here's something for the Dale's a Bonehead department: I changed my oil
yesterday. No big deal, put it on ramps, drained oil, etc.<<
Ramps? Wow, I can't get mine on ramps... :-(
>>I know that I have an oil leak at the o-rings at the base of the oil
filter; I got some new ones and decided to go ahead and tackle that at this
time. Well, pulled the oil filer pedastal off and pried the shot o-rings
off. No prob.
Lubed the new ones with oil, installed on filter pedastal, put on the
pedastal and tightened on good. Put on new filter, filled with oil, and
started. Heard a REAL weird noise; looked under the car, and saw oil
DUMPING out!<<
Yikes!!
>>Oh crap! Shut it off, took a look, and realized I put the damn pedastal
on BACKWARDS! Oy!<<
Whoa... Yowsers man...
>>So, I pulled it off again, and put it back on properly. In the process, I
dumped 3.5 quarts of oil on the driveway...bleh! So, let this be a lesson
if you do this job...:)<<
It's been duely noted my friend... Thanks for the warning. Actually, I
think there was someone else who did the same thing. Forgot who though...
Ah, oh well.
>>Thanks everybody!<<
No problemo dude, good luck.
Dale
Ev
-Everett Kamlley
FC3S GT-R
---
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:31:04 -1000 (HST)
From: F8LDZZ <f8ldzz@lava.net>
To: Paul Stoaks <pstoaks@chili.savantage.com>
cc: list@teamfc3s.org
Subject: Re: (FC3S) Oil Bypass Pellet Modification
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-list@mail.teamfc3s.org
Precedence: list
Reply-To: list@teamfc3s.org
Status: RO
X-Status:
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Paul Stoaks wrote:
> Well, I sprang for the RB full exhaust today. Should have it next week.
> While I was at it I also bought an oil pan baffle, figuring I might as well
> fix one of my oil leaks while I had the thing up on the stands. My question
> is, while I have the pan off, should I do this "bypass pellet" modification?
RB oil pan baffle for the 13B? Watch out if you're using two Mazda
gaskets to seal everything up. The stock 10mm head bolts are very
marginal in certain areas (like the corners) and are too short so you end
up stripping the threads!
Uh, try checking out my post on the oil bypass pellet. It has nothing to
do with anything under (above?) the oil pan area.
> I have noticed that a number of list members mention this modification on
> their car's description, but I have not seen it talked about in detail on this
> list. What exactly is the modification, and what are the reasons for doing it?
Again, check out my recent post. Detailed description? Here it comes...
1) Remove the stock viscous fan. This makes it a *LOT* easier to access.
2) Get a 19mm socket and remove that bolt in the middle of the main pulley.
Trick technique: Get a breaker bar and let the bar rest on the driver's
side chassis/frame. Give the car a quick crank with the
starter. The bolt should come free. *DON'T* hold the
starter for more than a couple seconds! I've heard that
sometimes this trick doesn't work if the bolt is really
tight. If this is the case, you'll have to track down a
"heavy duty" air impact gun.
3) Remove the bolt. Now, this bolt is pretty hard to unscrew. Mazda uses
a thread sealant to seal everything up in there. Don't get frustrated
that you can't just unscrew this bolt with your fingers; I sure as hell
couldn't!
4) You see that pellet (doesn't really look like a "pellet") and two springs.
If you're paranoid, there's a large copper washer that you could replace.
5) On one side of the pellet, there's a small (about 1mm) nub sticking out
just slightly. If you heat the pellet up (with a lighter or match)
rod protruds. Mazda spec is 6mm minimum.
6) Now, you can do one of two things...
6a) Get some high strength Loctite (red) and yank the rod with a pair
of pliers. Try to clean up the surfaces as you can. Apply Loctite
and reinsert. Watch out as the hole is air-tight. You'll have to
readjust the rod to remove air bubbles and get it just right. Shoot
for at least 6mm of protrusion.
6b) Try and find a dowel with a hole in it. This dowel should be able to
fit in the end of the bolt *AND* let the rod from the pellet extend
normally. I've tried to locate washers that were this small, but
I did not have too much luck. 6mm of washers is kinda a lot! Cut
the dowel to at least 6mm minimum height.
7) Put everything back together. Make sure you use thread sealant on the
bolt threads, or you'll have oil leaking out the front of the fan.
-Ted
> Also, does anybody know where I can get 14mm silicon rubber vacuum hose?
OD or ID? If it's ID, sorry; I've only seen 10mm (3/8") ID silicon hose
as the largest, if we're talking about long continuous length.
You might try and call Pegasus or something. All I see is 16mm (5/8") as
their smallest listed, but they might carry something smaller. Be warned
that even the 16mm hose is $26.69 per meter, with one meter minimum order!
-Ted
Ted Koseki 1987 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II (Dark Blue Metallic)
f8ldzz@lava.net HKS-Trust/GReddy-R.S.Akimoto-Racing Beat-VDO
f8ldzz@teamfc3s.org Cyberdyne-MOMO-K&N-Autothority-ThermalTec-PIAA
F8LSpeed Development CoolCarbon-Goodridge-Samco-Spal-Centerforce
Send mail to the list at list@teamfc3s.org
Send administrative requests to admin@teamfc3s.org
---
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 10:42:42 +0000
From: Dale Thomas <dalet361@nccn.net>
Subject: (rx7) (all) oils
OK people, I've noticed quite a few of you have made references to
redline oil. I'd like to set the record straight on that product. You
cannot buy a better oil for your vehicle!!!! The claims redline makes
are true.. I know, as I did a lot of the development work on it. I was
the first motorcycle road racer that redline sponsored what does a 250
GP bike have in common with an RX-7 you say? Well my truck at the time
was a rotary pick up and I used redline in the motor,transmission,and
rear end... and after each race I would pour my leftover race gas with
redline two stroke mixed at 75 to 1 in the tank! I know it's a little
spendy to be putting redline in the motor, but hey! They were giving me
the stuff by the case!! My gas mileage went from 18.5 MPG to 21 MPG just
by changing all the oils and the product is better today than it was
then. do I use redline today? yes I do, but not in the motor of my RX-7
I can't afford to buy that much of it! *LOL* I still use it in the
tranny and rear end though and in all my other cars and motorcycles just
go to their site and get all the info you need. and some of the biggest
valvoline, pennzoil and other race teams use redline, they just pour it
into the other bottles back at the shop... I know, I've seen them do it.
If you want to use the best petroleum oil on the market, then use
Castrol GTX I've seen the SEA papers and I was sponsored by them before
redline picked me up. It's what I use in the motor of my RX-7. I hope
this helps. redline's site is http://redlineoil.com/
Dale
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